"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/20/2018 at 15:04 • Filed to: Rav4
5
22|
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/20/2018 at 15:04 • Filed to: Rav4 | 5
| 22 |
Cutting through the marketing wank and straight to the nerdgasm.
GAS AWD
203 hp @ 6600 rpm
184 lbs-ft @ 5000 rpm
8 speed planetary transaxle. Lockup in 2-8th. The Toyota 8 speed only has 2 overdrive gears unlike the competing ZF9HP which has 4 overdrive gears. I.e. its ratio spread is far more useful acting like a regular 7 speed plus an extra overdrive vs acting like a 6 speed plus 3 extra overdrives.
1st gear is a crazy low 5.250:1
Final drive is 3.177
“crawl” ratio is a disappointing 16.7:1.
MPG City/Highway/Combined (87 octane)
26/33/29 (LE – AWD)
26/33/29 (XLE and XLE Premium – AWD)
24/32/27 (Adventure grade and Limited – AWD)
Ground clearance 8.4-8.6 inches.
Approach/departure angles - 19/21 degrees (also disappointing)
Weights (AWD) 3490-3620 (le to limited/adventure)
Power to weight
AWD LE - 17.19 lbs/hp
AWD limited - 17.83
Payload - 1090 (adventure) to 1120 (LE)
Towing for all grades except adventure - 1500 lbs
Towing for adventure - 3500 lbs (note: 350 lb tongue weight at @3500 max towing reduces payload to 740 lbs additional passengers and cargo. Pack light.) As far as I can work out, this is purely a cooling system and tow hitch issue. I can’t see why a standard RAV4 with auxilarly cooling and the stronger hitch couldn’t do it.
Tire Size -
225/65r17 LE (28.5 inches)
235/55r19 Adventure/XLE/Limited (29.2 inches)
My recommendation is that you consider the base 17 inch wheels with 235/65r17 all terrains (like a discoverer a/t3) (29 inches) or 235/70r17 (30 inches) if you are really looking to put that adventure name to good use.
HYBRID
Gas 2.5
176 hp @ 5700 rpm (+26 over 2018)
163 lbs-ft @ 3600-5200 rpm (+13 over 2018)
MG1/2
118 hp (-23 hp under 2018)
149 lbs-ft (no number given for 2018)
MGR (rear axle)
54 hp (- 13 hp under 2018)
89 lbs-ft (-7 under 2018)
Toyota claim 30% rear axle torque increase despite drop in power. (previous system max 658 lbs-ft = new system max 855 lbs-ft)
COMBINED HP 219 (+25 over 2018)
No given combined torque
Battery 244.8V DC pack stepped up to 650V AC system (Ni-MH) (same as outgoing)
6.5 Ahr capacity (~1.6 kWh)
Electric power split transmission with variable ratios (no high and low given, nor no final drive given). claimed 25% reduction in losses for this transmission over 2018
MPG City/Highway/Combined (87 octane)
41/37/39
Ground clearance 8.1 inches.
Approach/departure angles - 19/21 degrees
Weights (AWD) 3710-3800 (le to limited)
Power to weight
AWD LE - 16.94 lbs/hp
AWD limited - 17.35 lbs/hp
Payload - 1210 (LE/Limited) to 1165 (XLE/XSE) (up over the gas only models)
Towing - 1750 lbs
Tire Size -
225/65r17 LE (28.5 inches) (LE/XLE)
225/60r18 (28.6) (XSE/Limited)
Less hard data
AWD systems
LE/XLE
Pretty much last years system. Can send 50% (not 50/50 split) torque to rear axle. Cannot vector torque. Cannot manually “lock”. Cannot handle more than 50% total torque (no more than 1536 lbs-ft at the ring gear). Phases out with speed. Will decouple the RDM when it deems appropriate (no permanent rear preload). Brake based traction. Unclear on whether this gets a driveline disconnect like the torque vectoring unit does, but the MPG numbers suggest yes it does.
ADVENTURE/LIMITED
Adds a torque vectoring rear drive module. No hard information on how this works; whether its an overdrive module like GKN twinster/SH-AWD or 1:1 ratio with clutched half shafts. They say it’s their own system not a supplier system like GKN. They also say it can “direct up to 50 percent of engine torque to the rear wheels, as well as distribute it to the left or right rear wheel” No word on what that means in terms of single wheel limits or single wheel overspeeding. Decouples the rear driveshaft and the RDM as needed (no permanent rear preload).
NOTE: its interesting that the adventure and limited models see a significant mpg drop compared to the XL/XLE (2 city/1 highway). The only real differences between the models is the read drive module and slightly taller tires (and subsequent ground clearance increase of .2 inches) so we have to assume that this torque vectoring unit and the tires are the main reasons. The assumption here is that the AWD in these systems is program to be more active. It’s been said that this system remains active at much higher speeds than the standard system.
Both systems are said to be “predictive” in that they will use more than wheelslip sensors to engage the clutches so they don’t have to slip to be active. For example taking off hard from a stop the system will read the pedal position sensor and lock up the Rear Drive Module to a predetermined level whether you have bad traction or not.
HYBRID
Only uses the MGR for rear axle torque. Limited to no more than 855 lbs-ft ring gear (estimated). No torque vectoring. Brake based traction. only 427 lbs-ft (ring) can get to a single wheel ever. Toyota claim the changes they made to the power split transaxle mean that the front wheel speed and rear wheel speed will be more in sync than previous model. The TLDR of the old systems problem was that in order to send sufficient current to the MGR the engine had to spin up which, due to the nature of MG1 and MG2 being in series) meant that you also had to drive the front wheels and the rates were out of sync. Meaning that if you gunned it you would get front wheel spin as the drivetrain was required to spin the front axle in order to get sufficient torque to power the rear. the effect was that !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , even though it was. They claimed to have fixed that issue with the new arrangement of the MG1/MG2 being coaxial instead of inline.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
So more torque, more synchronized power flow and less engine revs for a given torque output. NOTE: it’s interesting that in the past Toyota has specifically said this is NOT and off road 4 wheel drive system. In this newest model it’s encouraged to be used off-road, even including a “trail-mode”. Also interesting is a tow rating slightly higher than standard gas models. 1750 isn’t going to do much compared to 1500 but if you had a 1500 lbs trailer you have a little more safety net now.
Other stuff
The adventure models get the standard “dial-a-terrain” (Multi-Terrain) systems including Mud & Sand (presumably less traction control intervention) and Rocks & Dirt (presumably a much more clamped down brake intervention logic). plus snow (lazy throttle 2nd gear starts), Eco (snooze town with no real benefits), normal and sport (front loaded throttle, delayed shifts and slightly different steering weight).
Plus hill descent control. The good news about the now ubiquitous HDC here is that Toyota has FINALLY seen the light and will allow you to adjust the speed by simply adding throttle until you are happy with the speed and then taking your foot back off the gas. ABOUT TIME.
Well I think that’s about it. oh it also has apple something and JBL woofers or something like that. who cares.
Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 15:11 |
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Wait what in the hell? An AWD crossover with a crawl gear?
KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 15:13 |
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Very informative.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
11/20/2018 at 15:17 |
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not a crawler gear, just the “crawl ratio”. i.e. 1st gear x the final drive. The Jeep Renegade likes to make a stink about its “lo mode” which is just 1st gear coupled with a very numerically large final for a ~20:1 “crawl ratio”. 16-17:1 is about standard for any of these small utes with off road pretentious .
The Dummy Gummy
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 15:19 |
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I dig the color scheme of the top photo. This is probably my next vehicle when my current one breaks/hits 200k miles.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> The Dummy Gummy
11/20/2018 at 15:21 |
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they’ve got good colors this gen
HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 15:23 |
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can some one do me a favor and Photoshop a Jeep logo in the bottom left of that first pic.
HoustonRunner
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 15:24 |
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What about fording depth?
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HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
> HoustonRunner
11/20/2018 at 15:26 |
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7 inches
nermal
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 15:29 |
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This should compare favorably to the Jeep Cherokee in the eye of consumers . The transmission sounds like an “actual” 8 speed instead of the Jeeps 9 speed that never really uses 1 or 9 so it ends up acting like a 7 speed. The Jeep will prob still be better in off-roading that is more difficult than a dirt road.
As is traditional, they’ll sell the crap out of them to suburbanite yuppie assholes that just want AWD because it’s “better in the snow”. The Adventure models should sell to people that got pissed off at the Jeep dealer down the street because they kept pushing 96 month loans with 10% interest and $5k worth of extended warranties.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
11/20/2018 at 15:32 |
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HammerheadFistpunch
> HoustonRunner
11/20/2018 at 15:33 |
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10 Fords...at least
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HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 15:33 |
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Close enough!
JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 15:41 |
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They should sell like hotcakes. I don’t really want a “compact” (read mid-size) Crossover, but if I did I’d probably be looking at these. As it is, I st ill think I’m going for the Hyundai Kona Limited. Even though the Kona Limited AWD’s lb s/hp is only 18.6, the 7-speed DCT seems quite nice in my test drives so far, and the AutoJournos seem to like it too. Also, the steering may be Modern Hyundai Numb™, but the road holding, and chassis manners are actually quite good. One of the old magazines (R&T? C&D?) got .88G out of it on the skidpad and noted that it was adamantly resistant to underseer until deep into traction loss.
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HoustonRunner
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 15:41 |
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That seems sufficient.
(If you couldn’t tell, was just trying to find *something* you missed in the incredible detail you provided. I don’t even want a RAV4 and I read it. OK, most of it. Nice post. )
415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 15:47 |
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I’ m installing Toyota in SF right now. I have a prototype adventure RAV4 right now, I drove it in here.
BJ
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 16:04 |
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Super nerdy. I love it.
Ground clearance is pretty good, but t hose approach/departure angles are bad . And the HDC has user- adjustable speed? That’s kind of amazeballs, but at the same time, any time I think I really “ need” HDC I’m not thinking, “Geez, I wish I could go faster.” I’m usually thinking, “ SLOW DOWN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! ”
Matt Nichelson
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 16:07 |
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Wow, the Rav4 actually looks kinda cool again. Been a while since that's been the case.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
11/20/2018 at 16:09 |
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The only information I don’t have is what it tastes like, any insights?
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HammerheadFistpunch
> BJ
11/20/2018 at 16:10 |
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really? I tried using the HDC on the GX once. once. WAAAY too slow, I want something between 4lo 1st and standing on the brakes.
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BJ
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 16:33 |
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I might be a bit of a chicken.
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415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 16:44 |
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Well imagine the new car smell, as a taste..
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415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> HammerheadFistpunch
11/20/2018 at 20:13 |
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We have to lock the doors for the show. Nobody gets to sits in them. We have a silver one on the turn table, an XSE. The Adventure is the grey and there is a white limited.